Dec 5, 2021
Welcome to episode one hundred of Activist #MMT. Phew! Today I talk with standup comedian and progressive video podcaster, Ron Placone. When there's not a global pandemic, Ron and Graham Elwood join together for a comedy tour. They've traveled all over the United States as well as Australia. I had the pleasure of seeing them twice in Philadelphia in 2019. The third time would have been October 9th, 2021, were it not for the Delta variant... and our government not doing anything about... well, anything.
Today, Ron and I talk about how he discovered MMT, especially through David Graeber's 2011 book DEBT. It was recommended to him by Steven Hail, over beers the day after a live show with Graham in Adelaide, Australia, in late 2019. After describing his journey to MMT, Ron then expresses two of his concerns about MMT, regarding how to apply the theory and also with some of the practices of a small amount of its supporters.
Among many other things, Ron and I dig into the major (but cordial!) disagreement we've had ever since meeting in August of 2018. Despite knowing that taxes don't pay for stuff at the national level, Ron believes strongly that leveraging the idea is a valuable political messaging tool. I say it's counterproductive. Really counterproductive. Take a listen and see what you think.
Beyond economics and politics, Ron and I share a love of music. For the past three years, I've been a small part of nearly every Ron Placone video and podcast, providing harmony for his theme song. In fact, the day this episode was recorded was the first that a new, more laid-back version of his theme, with new harmony, was debuted.
Finally, at the very end of today's episode, after the closing theme music, you will hear Ron and my live performances in Philadelphia. We sing (the original version) of Ron's theme song, and then our cover of Tom Petty's Last Dance for Mary Jane. Ron is on the guitar and lead vocals, and I sing harmony, whistle, and play percussion. (With a big thanks to Geoff Ginter, the person who introduced me to MMT, for the guitar.)
You'll find links to several episodes of Ron's show over the past three years, with both me and Steven Hail, in the show notes. A final thing regarding today's episode: a minor kind-of correction: the person with Steven Hail in Australia was Phil Lawn.
I also want to mention that, as always, you will a find a duplicate of today's spoken introduction at the very (very) end of the episode. (It normally comes after the closing theme music.) This is for those who wish to hear it without even quiet music in the background. I started this more than a year ago at listener request.
You can contact me directly on Twitter or at activistmmt@gmail.com. If you like what you hear, please consider becoming a monthly patron of Activist #MMT. For as little as a dollar a month, all patrons get super-early access to nearly every episode. They also get the opportunity to ask my academic guests questions, and they also support the development of my large collection of learn-MMT resources, among several other things. To become a partition, you can start by visiting patreon.com/activistmmt. Thanks.
And now, onto my conversation with Ron Placone. Enjoy.
Resources
- The original unedited video where this episode comes from.
- Ron interviews Steven Hail in October, 2020:
- Some of my appearances on Ron's show: