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Activist #MMT - podcast

Aug 28, 2022

Welcome to episode 133 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Charles Hayden about his role in creating at least three important milestones in MMT history, and how Warren Mosler played a integral role his journey to understanding and accepting MMT. The first milestone, as hinted at in the cool quote (what you heard at the very beginning), is the 2013 debate between Warren and Austrian economist Robert Murphy. The second is the 2020 conversation between MMT economist Pavlina Tcherneva and billionaire Mark Cuban, as hosted by Real Progressives. The third is a three-and-a-half-hour long talk and Q&A Warren gave in 2012 at a Texas church. This event was a personal milestone for a previous guest of mine, although I've not yet determined who.

(Here's a link to part two. A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found at the bottom of this post.)

In part two, Charles and I discuss the many different realistic views of inflation, and how they're all connected by the fact that the national government is the monopoly price setter for the entire economy – whether they know it or not. This is one of the unique contributions of Modern Money Theory.

As Charles told me, he wouldn't choose to be so public, or to have to fight so hard as an activist. He'd rather just enjoy his family, home, and backyard. There's not much hope in doing those things, however, without a stable, and not-blazingly hot, world in which to do it. Helping the general public understand the reality of our economic and financial systems is an important prerequisite in consolidating the power we need, in order to stand against those who benefit from instability and inequality – and who, most unfortunately, are exactly those who currently stand at nearly all the levers of power.

If you like what you hear, then I hope you might consider becoming a monthly patron of Activist #MMT. Patrons have exclusive access to several full-length episodes, right now. A full list is here, each with a brief highlight. Patrons also get the opportunity to ask my academic guests questions, like in recent episodes with Dirk Ehnts, John Harvey, and Warren Mosler. They also support the development of my large and growing collection of learn MMT resources. To become a patron, you can start by going to Every little bit helps a little bit, and it all adds up to a lot. Thanks.

And now, onto my conversation with Charles Hayden. Enjoy.

Audio chapters

  • 4:22 - Hellos, radiant barriers, time, and Stranger Things
  • 6:10 - How he discovered MMT
  • 14:56 - Warren talks for 3 1/2 hours at a Dallas church in 2012
  • 23:45 - Mark Cuban
  • 31:47 - MMT during COVID
  • 35:20 - Frederic Lee - "Prices begin with Warren's monopolist."
  • 38:57 - Mistaking Mark Cuban for Nick Hanauer
  • 39:51 - You need to start from scratch (Mosler's business card story.)
  • 50:08 - John Harvey
  • 54:24 - Inflation- first thoughts
  • 55:25 - Inflation is to the real world like a thermometer is to sickness (also, inflation the boogeyman)
  • 1:01:01 - Duplicate of introduction, with no background music (for those with sensitive ears)